Ahoy - Mac's Web Log

Hello.

I saw on your website a story about Karl Donitz' Baton, and the guy who took it, Captain Hugh Williams of 2nd Army HQ. The story says that Williams gave it to his Regimental Museum. Do you happen to know the Regimental Museum that Williams gave it to? Thank you for your time. Take care.

Sincerely,
Ed Crane

Ed,
 
In response to your question " Admiral Donitz's Baton where is it held?"
 
I have had this asked before, and I attach my reply then, with a photo of this rather handsome baton.
 
Best wishes, 
Mac. Gregory

Dear Sir,

My name is Aylson Doyle and I am a Brasilian collector  of III-REICH items for a very long time.

I was reading an article at Ahoy-Mac´s Web Log about the Grössadmiral Dönitz Ceremonial Baton. I found very interesting the letter of Mr.Bill Hart, the son of PFC William A. Lilley.

I have very important information about this baton and I ask you,please, to tell Mr.Bill Hart to E-Mail me at heydrich77sd@yahoo.com.br ,so we can talk about this.Of course I will keep you updated to the new information I have since I know you are interested in Naval History.

I thank you very much!

Very Best Regards,
Aylson Doyle

Thank you very much. I've been looking all over for that information! It sure is a beautiful item! When I travel to England in 2005, I plan to see it.

Thank you for helping me. I appreciate it. Take care.

Sincerely,
Ed Crane

Dear Mac,

I ran across an e-mail correspondence you had with a Mr. Ed Crane concerning Karl Donitz' Baton.  I found the information very curious because of the following story.

My father, PFC William Lilley, was a driver for an artillery Lieutenant near the end of WWII.  They arrived at Hitler's Bertchesgarden the day after it was taken.  In one of the bedrooms, under a bed, they found 3 boxes.  My father, the lieutenant and another GI that was present claimed a box each.  The boxes actually had "#1, #2, and #3" marked on them.  The box the lieutenant and the other GI took were found to be completely empty.  The box my father claimed contained numerous medals and in a separate, long black box with white satin interior, a field marshal's baton was found.  The inscription around the top of the baton said it was from Hitler to Karl Donitz.  Both ends of the baton unscrewed and inside contained an autographed photo of Donitz.

The lieutenant ordered my father to give him the baton and other medals which he did.  Upon returning to their headquarters, my father reported the incident to higher superiors to which they made the lieutenant return the medals, along with the baton, to my father.

When my father returned to the United States in late 1945, he remained in the U.S. Army. While stationed at Savannah, Georgia, in 1946, he lived above bar close to the military base and worked part-time at the bar when not on duty.  One night while working in the bar, someone broke into his 1946 Ford coupe and stole the baton and the box the baton was contained in.  They left all of the other medals that were with the baton.  My father died in 1976 and I now have control of those medals.

I have a feeling the Donitz' Baton in England is either a copy or a hoax and the one my father had is the real one.  I am attaching a copy of a newspaper clipping (it is an official US Army photograph) which has my father showing his commanding officer Donitz' baton.  I am also attaching the color photo of what is purported to be Donitz' baton currently located in the UK.  As you can see, they appear to be identical.

The family has been trying to locate the stolen baton for over 50 years.  I am trying to ascertain if the captain mentioned by Ed Crane, Captain Hugh Williams, was actually the Lieutenant that ordered my father to give him the baton and medals.  We found it very interesting that the baton was the only item taken from his car in 1946 and since my father was still in the military at the time, it would have been easy for Williams to locate him knowing how valuable the baton was.

Just thought you might want to hear this story.  The baton has been a mystery until I located your e-mail correspondence with Crane.

Bill Hart
(My mom and dad divorced in 1949 and that is why I have a different last name)

Dear Bill,

Many thanks for your fascinating message about your Father and his finding of Donitz's Baton at the end of WW2 in Germany.

From your photo it looks the genuine article, and the one in England that I reported on could well be your Dad's that was stolen. I would doubt that such an intricate and so decorated Baton would be duplicated, and why would anyone want to copy it anyway?

If you ever get to England I guess you should check it out.

Again my thanks for your message, it would be wonderful to sort out the mystery once and for all time.

The seasons greetings to you in Texas from OZ.

Regards,
Mac. Gregory.

Dear Curator, Museum in Shropshire,

It is my understanding that one of your prize exhibits is Admiral Karl Donitz's Field Marshall's Baton. Can you please answer some questions for me about it?

Who presented this Baton to the Shropshire Regimental Museum? and on what date?

Do you have a photograph of Donitz at the time of his capture on the 23rd. of May 1945?

Is there a number anywhere on the Baton? I believe that the Admiral was the 5th. German to be invested by Hitler with such a Baton.

Do the ends of the Baton unscrew? if so, was there anything deposited within the Baton?

I have a report from the son of a US serving soldier in WW2 who is reported as finding a Baton in a box under a bed at the Wolf's Lair, he has a photo of his Father showing this Baton, supposedly that of Donitz to his officer, back in the States, post war.

This Baton was stolen from his Father's car in 1946, and his thinks the one you have is the this one.

Now, Hitler invested a number of his top Servicemen with a Field Marshall's Baton, and I presume they were all the same, it could be that the one found at the Wolf's Lair was one waiting to be presented to a new  future recipient.

Your answers to my questions may help solve this mystery.

I have a large Web Site: AHOY. Mac's Web Log with a great deal of Naval History, and am asked a lot of questions from around the world.

I served as a Naval Officer in the Royal Australian Navy for 20 years, including war time service in HMAS Shropshire, donated to the RAN by Britain to replace her sister ship HMAS Canberra lost at the Battle of Savo Island in August 1942, when I was a crew member in her.

My URL is : http://ahoy.tk-jk.net

Any assistance you are able to offer will be much appreciated thank you.

With the Season's Greetings from Australia.

Sincerely,
Mackenzie Gregory.

Dear Sir :

The Baton you refer to is the one given to Brigadier General Churcher, who
took the it from Doenitz during the surrender process at Flensburg; Churcher
commanded the Brigade (which included the 4th KSLI) which arrested the
remnant Nazi government and occupied Flensburg.

The Baton remained in General Churcher's possession until 1964 when he give
it to his Regimental Museum and it has been on show ever since.
There is NO question of the baton we have having been in anyone else's
possession. I am afraid your correspondent is seriously in errror if he
thinks that the Doenitz baton which we have was ever in his possession.

A Field Marshall's baton (e.g. supposedly found at Wolf's Lair) would not,
of course be appropriate for a naval commander like Doentiz or Raeder- they
were designated as Grand Admiral and their baton's reflect that status. The
Grand Admiral's batons were NOT the same as Army ones and not even the same
as each other- that for Raeder and Donitz (the only two naval baton awards
of the Nazi era) were VERY different; Raeder's is in a collection in USA.
Individual preferences in design were allowed and Doenitz's has U- Boat
motifs to reflect his status as commander of the U-Boat fleet before
becoming commander of the entire fleet. His baton was, understandably, in
his possession in Flensburg - and not at the Wolf's Lair.

The baton does unscrew; there is nothing in its centre.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Duckers.
Curator, SRM

Dear Mr. Gregory,

Since sending you my reply re Doenitz baton, I have had a look through our
records on the subject.
I find that there was in fact a PROTOTYPE of Doenitz's baton i.e. design
model - which was exactly the same as the finished product except that it
did not have the U-boat motif which Doenitz insisted on. This may well have
been in Hitler's possession - for his approval.
This prototype turned up in Eastern Europe and is now in the possession of a
British collector, who brought it here to compare with ours (I have this
from one of our older staff here - I was not working here then); we have
this collector's address etc. Our data protrection laws do not allow me to
give them to you - but if you wish, I can ask him to get in touch.
It is highly possible that what Mr. Hart's father found in Hitler's house
was the prototype baton which this British collector now has.
As I said in my last e-mail, there is no question of "our" baton having been
out of the ownership of Churcher from April 1946, when he received it in
Flensburg; one would expect it to have been in Doentiz's possession.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Duckers
Curator

Dear Mr.Gregory,

That is correct : Churcher received the baton as part of the surrender
process.
In his own (unpublished) account, Churcher tells how General Rock and he
personally (with other Staff Officers of his brigade) invited the remnant
government led by Donitz to a meeting in Flensburg (where the Germans
thought they were about to discuss joint administration etc - Donitz hoped
to be retained in office) and then "seized" Donitz, Speer etc. - to their
considerable surprise - and placed them under arrest. This was on May 23rd
at 9.30 a.m. - not April as I said!
The baton was part of Donitz'z personal possessions in Flensburg - as one
would expect; it was never in Berchtesgaden.
I will forward your details to the current owner of the "prototype" or
design-model, who lives in Uk. It is THIS baton which I believe may well
have been in Hitler's home - he presumably  would have had it as a "proof"
to approve the design etc.
Please bear in mind that the current owner (who visited this museum some
years ago to compare the two batons) may NOT want to publicise his address
etc.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Duckers

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