John Thomson - HMS Hythe 1943
Hi, I work for the local authority in Greenock, Scotland, and we recently had a request from a French lady who wanted us to find her WWII sweetheart (from Greenock), as she's quite ill and wants to know what happened to him before she dies. Emotional stuff! I did some digging and found his name on the list of casualties for HMS Hythe in Algeria in 1943 (he is John Thomson, I think full name is John Johnston Gibson Thomson). He was the only person on the ship from Scotland, was listed as being from Greenock, and was an "able seaman".
However, the lady said he was a sergeant, and had possibly fought with the Free French forces. He was stationed in Armentieres, France, in 1939-1940, then left and was last heard of in Goettingen in 1942, when he sent his last letters to her.
Because of the age (24) and birth place of the man listed on HMS Hythe, I believe that this is the same man she's looking for, but I just find it strange that he would be a sergeant in the army and then suddenly be listed as Navy personnel.
I know you may not know much about Scottish soldiers in WWII, but any tips you might be able to give me on how to verify the man's identiy would be greatly appreciated. I can't seem to let the mystery drop, I really want to find out the full story!!!
Thank you,
Shona
Shona,
Details of HMS Hy the:
HMS Hythe (J 194)
Minesweeper of the Bangor class
Navy The Royal Navy
Type Minesweeper
Class Bangor
Pennant J 194
Built by Ailsa Shipbuilding Co. Ltd. (Troon, Scotland)
Ordered
Laid down 20 Jul, 1940
Launched 4 Sep, 1941
Commissioned 5 Mar, 1942
Lost 11 Oct, 1943
Loss position 37.04N, 05.00E (See a map)
History At 01.09 on 11 October 1943 HMS Hythe (Lt.Cdr. Leslie Beara Miller, RN) was torpedoed and sunk off Bougie, Algeria in position 37º04'N, 05º00'E by the German submarine U-371.
Hit by U-boat
Sunk on 11 Oct, 1943 by U-371 (Mehl).
Bangor Class Mine Sweeper.
Details of U-371.
U-371
Type
VIIC
Ordered 23 Sep, 1939
Laid down 17 Nov, 1939 Howaldtswerke, Kiel (werk 2)
Launched 27 Jan, 1941
Commissioned 15 Mar, 1941 Oblt. Heinrich Driver
Commanders
15 Mar, 1941 - 5 Apr, 1942 Heinrich Driver
26 Mar, 1942 - 6 Apr, 1942 Karl-Otto Weber
6 Apr, 1942 - 24 May, 1942 Heinz-Joachim Neumann (in deputize) -- acting
25 May, 1942 - 4 Apr, 1944 Kptlt. Waldemar Mehl (Knights Cross)
5 Apr, 1944 - 4 May, 1944 Oblt. Horst-Arno Fenski (Knights Cross)
Career 19 patrols 15 Mar, 1941 - 30 Jun, 1941 1. Flottille (training)
1 Jul, 1941 - 31 Oct, 1941 1. Flottille (front boat)
1 Nov, 1941 - 14 Apr, 1942 23. Flottille (front boat)
15 Apr, 1942 - 4 May, 1944 29. Flottille (front boat)
Successes 8 ships sunk for a total of 51.401 GRT
1 auxiliary warship sunk for a total of 545 GRT
2 warships sunk for a total of 2.286 tons
4 ships damaged for a total of 28.072 GRT
2 warships damaged for a total of 2.500 tons
2 ships a total loss for a total of 13.341 GRT
Fate
Sunk at 0409 on 4 May, 1944 in the Mediterranean north of Constantine, in position 37.49N, 05.39E, by depth charges from the US destroyer escorts USS Pride and USS Joseph E. Campbell, the French destroyer escort Sénégalais and the British escort destroyer HMS Blankney. 3 dead and 49 survivors.
Swamp
This boat was unlucky enough to be the first victim to an allied sub-hunting tactic in the Mediterranean known as Swamp. This tactic simply called for the area of a known or suspected U-boat to be packed with surface escorts and patrol aircraft. They would then systematically and continually search the area and force the U-boat to remain submerged until its batteries ran out or try to escape at night on the surface. Either was almost hopeless.
The Hunt
U-371 was spotted recharging her batteries on the surface off Djidjelli on the Algerian coast on the night of 2/3 May 1944 and was immediately detected and the area was swamped with 6 escorts and 3 aircraft squadrons. They hunted the boat until the early morning of May 4 when Oblt. Fenski had to surface the boat and save his crew. He had managed to fight back and torpedoed and damaged the US destroyer escort USS Menges and the French destroyer escort Sénégalais before calling it quits.
Attacks on this boat
7 May, 1942
The boat was depth charged by two sub chasers. and was so heavily damaged that she had to return to base.
1 recorded attacks on this boat.
Here is the Certificate for John Johnston Gibson Thomson from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site:
In Memory of
Able Seaman JOHN JOHNSTON GIBSON THOMSON
P/JX 191223, H.M.S. Hythe, Royal Navy
who died age 24
on 11 October 1943
Son of David and Elizabeth Johnstone Thomson, of Greenock, Renfrewshire.
Remembered with honour.
PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
His name appears on the Portsmouth Naval Memorial on Panel 75 in Column 3.
John's Official Number P/JX 191223, the P stands for Portsmouth, his Port Division ( Welfare Authority ) and the JX stands for the fact he is a
seaman rather than a cook, a stoker etc, and that he had signed on for a 12 year stint, so he was most likely in the Navy pre 1939.
Given that fact it is virtually impossible for John to have also served in the Army.
I cannot imagine what he was doing in Goettingen in 1942, that is in Germany between Bonn and Berlin. I do not think that is plausable, and
possibly another fib.
Now meeting a nice French Lady in Greenock, how do you go about making a big hit with her? You serve in France, and indicate that you were with
the Free French, voila!! A Scottish sailor serving with the FF, not possible.
A few white lies never stood between a sailor and a conquest. Forgive my cynical approach please Shona, but during WW2 I saw that type of approach so many times.
Guess that is about as far as I can help, if indeed I have even done that for you.
Best regards,
Mac.
April 3, 2011
Dear Mac,
Re: Letters "John Johnston Gibson Thomson - HMS Hythe 1943"
I came across your web page regarding John Johnston Gibson Thomson, he was my uncle and my fathers younger brother.
I have a photograph of John in his naval uniform. If anyone is interested I am happy e-mail a copy to them.
Regards
John Thomson
John,
I would like a photo of John in uniform please.
We will add it to our Ahoy site at the HMS Hythe post.
Best regards,
Mac.
Dear Mac,
Thank you for your reply, Johns photograph's attached. I would appreciate the web site for HMS Hythe Post.
John Johnston Gibson Thomson - HMS Hythe 1943
John Johnston Gibson Thomson - HMS Hythe 1943
Regards
John Thomson
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